It was just a matter of time before filmmaker and Gaia host Ben Stewart and Paul Chek crossed paths.

Before their recent Living 4D podcast conversation, Paul and Ben had been following each other’s work for a good long while.

Like Paul, Ben embraces the power of magic, whether it’s performing music in front of a live audience with his band, attending Burning Man or working on longform TV series for Gaia or independently produced documentaries.

Two more important qualities Ben and Paul share: Their courage to say things that shake up the conventional ways many people view the world, and their approach to keeping their hearts and minds open to new things.

“So for me, being the student of life has always been the most meaningful,” Ben says. “Opening the heart and being humble… that’s what I believe. And, opening the heart to the fact that I am not perfect.

“I don’t know everything, but I do know how to listen to my heart and move forward and keep learning from life. That way, for any crisis that may pop up, it’s an opportunity. It’s not this life-shattering event.”

Learn more about why striving for perfection can be a huge problem in learning, growing and connecting with the world and others in this Living 4D Podcast Rewind conversation with Ben Stewart.